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	<title>Comments on: Dear facebook and Google, I love libraries more.</title>
	<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/</link>
	<description>Libraries, Community, Technology and PEZ</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 08:16:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bookmarks about Information</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-22711</link>
		<author>Bookmarks about Information</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2008 15:45:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-22711</guid>
		<description>[...] - bookmarked by 3 members originally found by vednis on 2008-10-15  Dear facebook and Google, I love libraries more.  http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/ - [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] - bookmarked by 3 members originally found by vednis on 2008-10-15  Dear facebook and Google, I love libraries more.  <a href="http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/" rel="nofollow">http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/</a> - [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Libraryman</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-19306</link>
		<author>Libraryman</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 22:04:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-19306</guid>
		<description>Thanks very much for taking the time to share your thoughtful perspective here, Richard.  I'd love to do a panel show where folks could talk over this subject in a conversation.  It's very interesting and complex stuff for sure that deserves some time.  I imagine we agree more than we can tell from the text alone and conversation would likely clarify that, as well as the differences.
A couple things jumped out in your response that I wanted to reply to.  First, I really don't think profit is bad and didn't intend to imply that.  I think capitalism is likely the best model we have to connect and grow many things.  But it needs checks and balances at times and this is one of those times in my opinion.

As I understand and see things, in the US at least, the concept of capitalism is tempered with the idea of "democracy".  And when it comes to the way some companies conduct business and undercut libraries (with fresher tech offerings mostly, which I understand most often require capitalism to come to market).

I still hold that companies just *saying* they are good, even if the are brilliant, popular and wealthy is NOT good.

This part also caught my attention as wel:
"Requiring businesses to “permanently give back” is socialism. They’re giving back through the very act of earning money"
I understand what you say here and agree that it is true to a certain extent. But is a slippery slope both from the "trickle down" perspective, to the "this would be "socialism"" perspective.
Even as a capitalistic democracy we have a series of social institutions that continue because we decide to support them.  I just don't think people at large realize quite what is at stake for libraries in relation to these disruptive technologies when it comes to open information access, community connection, content, privacy and a slew of associated things.  Libraries must be at the core of these interactions going forward and I don't see that happening yet.  
And I think it could happen.  And with plenty of room for all parties involved to make income (or at least for the libraries perspective to  bring in enough cash flow to keep them around while they help to build and enhance the system).  This scenario would be a win-win and would provide sufficient checks and balances (again in my opinion).
Again Richard, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.  It's good get  this sort of feedback to help think things through and learn and see more perspectives.  So, thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks very much for taking the time to share your thoughtful perspective here, Richard.  I&#8217;d love to do a panel show where folks could talk over this subject in a conversation.  It&#8217;s very interesting and complex stuff for sure that deserves some time.  I imagine we agree more than we can tell from the text alone and conversation would likely clarify that, as well as the differences.<br />
A couple things jumped out in your response that I wanted to reply to.  First, I really don&#8217;t think profit is bad and didn&#8217;t intend to imply that.  I think capitalism is likely the best model we have to connect and grow many things.  But it needs checks and balances at times and this is one of those times in my opinion.</p>
<p>As I understand and see things, in the US at least, the concept of capitalism is tempered with the idea of &#8220;democracy&#8221;.  And when it comes to the way some companies conduct business and undercut libraries (with fresher tech offerings mostly, which I understand most often require capitalism to come to market).</p>
<p>I still hold that companies just *saying* they are good, even if the are brilliant, popular and wealthy is NOT good.</p>
<p>This part also caught my attention as wel:<br />
&#8220;Requiring businesses to “permanently give back” is socialism. They’re giving back through the very act of earning money&#8221;<br />
I understand what you say here and agree that it is true to a certain extent. But is a slippery slope both from the &#8220;trickle down&#8221; perspective, to the &#8220;this would be &#8220;socialism&#8221;" perspective.<br />
Even as a capitalistic democracy we have a series of social institutions that continue because we decide to support them.  I just don&#8217;t think people at large realize quite what is at stake for libraries in relation to these disruptive technologies when it comes to open information access, community connection, content, privacy and a slew of associated things.  Libraries must be at the core of these interactions going forward and I don&#8217;t see that happening yet.<br />
And I think it could happen.  And with plenty of room for all parties involved to make income (or at least for the libraries perspective to  bring in enough cash flow to keep them around while they help to build and enhance the system).  This scenario would be a win-win and would provide sufficient checks and balances (again in my opinion).<br />
Again Richard, I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.  It&#8217;s good get  this sort of feedback to help think things through and learn and see more perspectives.  So, thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard X. Thripp</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-19289</link>
		<author>Richard X. Thripp</author>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 02:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-19289</guid>
		<description>You pay for public libraries in your property taxes. If you refuse to pay, your house will be confiscated. Would you prefer Google to be turned over to the enlightened government so there are no ads and you can pay a Google tax every year?

You're fighting the wrong battle. &lt;a href="http://richardxthripp.thripp.com/the-profit-police-218" rel="nofollow"&gt;Profit isn't evil&lt;/a&gt;. Businesses only make a profit by providing a valuable service to the world, save for market inefficiencies. Usurping your users doesn't work for long. Requiring businesses to "permanently give back" is socialism. They're giving back through the very act of earning money, and it's wonderful that money can be earned by direct means: ad-supported free services rather than subscription services.

Why is it that the best way to find items in my local library is to get the ISBN or title through Amazon or Google, and then enter it in the OPAC? Because the drive to improve isn't there. When you have guaranteed tax dollars, no one innovates search, networking tools, cataloging processes, etc. A non-profit doesn't create a Google. Everyone's putting their best hours into a day job to support themselves. If only the non-profits could get an infusion of profit, you would see great things coming from them.

We could have free libraries with wonderful catalogs, user reviews, relevant search results, great hours and community services, and no taxes, just like Google gives me wonderful tools to search the web and manage my email without earning a cent. We just need to plaster ads and affiliate referrals on the walls, on the websites, among the stacks, as bookmarks in books, etc. Part of the library could be a bookstore.

Profit and community service do not have to be mutually exclusive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You pay for public libraries in your property taxes. If you refuse to pay, your house will be confiscated. Would you prefer Google to be turned over to the enlightened government so there are no ads and you can pay a Google tax every year?</p>
<p>You&#8217;re fighting the wrong battle. <a href="http://richardxthripp.thripp.com/the-profit-police-218" rel="nofollow">Profit isn&#8217;t evil</a>. Businesses only make a profit by providing a valuable service to the world, save for market inefficiencies. Usurping your users doesn&#8217;t work for long. Requiring businesses to &#8220;permanently give back&#8221; is socialism. They&#8217;re giving back through the very act of earning money, and it&#8217;s wonderful that money can be earned by direct means: ad-supported free services rather than subscription services.</p>
<p>Why is it that the best way to find items in my local library is to get the ISBN or title through Amazon or Google, and then enter it in the OPAC? Because the drive to improve isn&#8217;t there. When you have guaranteed tax dollars, no one innovates search, networking tools, cataloging processes, etc. A non-profit doesn&#8217;t create a Google. Everyone&#8217;s putting their best hours into a day job to support themselves. If only the non-profits could get an infusion of profit, you would see great things coming from them.</p>
<p>We could have free libraries with wonderful catalogs, user reviews, relevant search results, great hours and community services, and no taxes, just like Google gives me wonderful tools to search the web and manage my email without earning a cent. We just need to plaster ads and affiliate referrals on the walls, on the websites, among the stacks, as bookmarks in books, etc. Part of the library could be a bookstore.</p>
<p>Profit and community service do not have to be mutually exclusive.</p>
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		<title>By: Margo</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18996</link>
		<author>Margo</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jul 2008 16:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18996</guid>
		<description>Great post, Michael, you've got me thinking. You should always speak your mind so openly if this is the result. As you know, I've never been a Google fan or user but have definitely been onboard with the Facebook bandwagon.  Questions now, so many questions...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Michael, you&#8217;ve got me thinking. You should always speak your mind so openly if this is the result. As you know, I&#8217;ve never been a Google fan or user but have definitely been onboard with the Facebook bandwagon.  Questions now, so many questions&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Uncontrolled Vocabulary #50! - How we can get good things done &#124; Uncontrolled Vocabulary</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18954</link>
		<author>Uncontrolled Vocabulary #50! - How we can get good things done &#124; Uncontrolled Vocabulary</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jul 2008 04:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18954</guid>
		<description>[...] When Googleâ€™s the library, whoâ€™s the librarian? (BuzzMachine) Dear facebook and Google, I love libraries more. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] When Googleâ€™s the library, whoâ€™s the librarian? (BuzzMachine) Dear facebook and Google, I love libraries more. [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18917</link>
		<author>Steve</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 17:38:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18917</guid>
		<description>Hey Keyth (or is it Keith and you made a typo?) - Let he who has never made a typo or a grammatical error cast the first stone. Would you really want someone going over Everything you've ever written with a red marker? As Sgt. Hulka said in Stripes, "lighten up Francis!"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Keyth (or is it Keith and you made a typo?) - Let he who has never made a typo or a grammatical error cast the first stone. Would you really want someone going over Everything you&#8217;ve ever written with a red marker? As Sgt. Hulka said in Stripes, &#8220;lighten up Francis!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Marilyn Mason</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18914</link>
		<author>Marilyn Mason</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 15:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18914</guid>
		<description>Nicely done! Excellent and timely discussion of an important topic. Would love for all of us who care about these things to enter into an ongoing discussion about what we would like to see happen as this new world unfolds. Thanks so much for teeing it up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicely done! Excellent and timely discussion of an important topic. Would love for all of us who care about these things to enter into an ongoing discussion about what we would like to see happen as this new world unfolds. Thanks so much for teeing it up.</p>
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		<title>By: Rochelle Carr calilibrarian</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18913</link>
		<author>Rochelle Carr calilibrarian</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:25:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18913</guid>
		<description>I was astounded when I didn't see the Google booth at ALA and didn't like the implications considering the current topics on Google in the blogosphere. The sense of use/misuse of the library community, the erosion of our privacy is becoming more prevalent as we discuss this and bring it into our personal and professional conversations. Thanks Michael, excellent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was astounded when I didn&#8217;t see the Google booth at ALA and didn&#8217;t like the implications considering the current topics on Google in the blogosphere. The sense of use/misuse of the library community, the erosion of our privacy is becoming more prevalent as we discuss this and bring it into our personal and professional conversations. Thanks Michael, excellent post.</p>
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		<title>By: Keyth</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18912</link>
		<author>Keyth</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 14:11:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18912</guid>
		<description>Please edit your grammar.  One downfall of technological communication, like blogging, is that grammar and spelling have been sacrificed to speed of typing the message in and posting it.  You have so much good to say, but "it's" is not a replacement for "its".

Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please edit your grammar.  One downfall of technological communication, like blogging, is that grammar and spelling have been sacrificed to speed of typing the message in and posting it.  You have so much good to say, but &#8220;it&#8217;s&#8221; is not a replacement for &#8220;its&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18911</link>
		<author>Steve</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 13:22:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.libraryman.com/blog/2008/07/14/dear-facebook-and-google-i-love-libraries-more/#comment-18911</guid>
		<description>These are scary times. As you probably know, the "enlightened" politicians in your home state have cut property taxes in a manner that seriously affects the library's budget. We are cutting back on staff and services. I wish those same politicians could have read this blog entry before casting their votes!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These are scary times. As you probably know, the &#8220;enlightened&#8221; politicians in your home state have cut property taxes in a manner that seriously affects the library&#8217;s budget. We are cutting back on staff and services. I wish those same politicians could have read this blog entry before casting their votes!</p>
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